Arguing with someone about whether the Beatles song yellow submarine became popular ironically, like it's not actually a good Beatles songs? I disagreed, but thought I'd ask the expert!!
Actually, I can see it both ways; to me it all has to do with how you listen to it. Yellow Submarine was intended as a children's sing-a-long, and recorded with a gimmick-infused novelty-record approach. In this light, it's genuinely terrific and accomplishes its goal perfectly.
The problem in a way is the "good Beatles song" formulation: too many people don't hear it as a communal, utopian song for kids, but as a release by what's supposed to be the biggest rock band in the world.
The funniest thing about reactions to Yellow Submarine is that in the year or so after its release, an entire cottage industry arose in which academics, cultural critics and other overly credulous listeners fell over themselves applying tortured interpretations to the song's hidden meanings. (No joke, you've got to hear some of these things to believe them.)
Personally I think it's unfortunate that Yellow Submarine was a) released as an A-side single (actually a double-A-side, along with Eleanor Rigby), drawing attention to it as if it was a substantive piece, and b) included on Revolver, an album on which every other track was either brilliant, innovative or both. Both decisions lead inevitably to people taking Yellow Submarine seriously (and snarkily using it to explain their dislike of the band!)...
As far as I'm concerned Yellow Submarine is a great children's song and the record is filled with sonic fun. And having Ringo sing it was of course a masterstroke (and should defuse any criticism or cynicism). But I do wonder if it should have been put out in a different context, i.e. not as an A-side or on a major LP. Maybe if it was simply left as Eleanor Rigby's B-side...
Hey Perry I don't know if you watch the series succession but in season three the episode where they go to the investors beach house there's a great moment where Kendall the son, Calls the Beatles a great band but then his father revises and calls it a *good band and this very small, dispute over great vs good underlies the deeper dysfunction between the father and son
Hey Rebecca, thanks for the tip - I watched the first two seasons of Succession but haven't seen season 3 yet! Love that anecdote and will keep an eye out for it; sounds like yet another in a long line of fraught father-son allegories in that show. (Almost hard to watch at times for that reason.)
Funny thing about that exchange: Brian Cox, the veteran actor who plays the father, is in real life a huge Beatles fan and would probably agree with Kendall. You might get a kick out of a few of his comments when he was a guest on SiriusXM last year:
--On Eleanor Rigby: "The idea of 'picking up the rice in a church where a wedding has been, lives in a dream'...you know, it's about alienation. There was always that element in, particularly, working class society of those who were more frail both mentally and spiritually. And Father McKenzie - I mean, 'writing the sermon that no one will hear, no one comes near' - it's just a brilliant, brilliant song."
--On While My Guitar Gently Weeps: "The notion of a guitar gently weeping, it's such a lyrical thing. It's worthy of the romantic poets of the late 17- and early 1800s, you know, Shelley and Keats. It has that feeling about it. Beautiful song."
--On "Get Back," Peter Jackson's 8-hour 2021 documentary: "That incredible Beatles documentary which we've all seen - it made me cry because it represented so much of my youth. Social barriers were dissolving, everything was hopeful."
Now I've gotta binge some Succession and get caught up... :)
Two hot takes bc im typing with my thumb. (How is this progress?!)
1. The seminal OG punk band literally named themselves after a Paul McCartney alias (Paul Ramone) as you are no doubt aware.
The pistols perhaps didn’t get the joke, or it was too close to home?
2. Studio as instrument - yes, well behind Les Paul but its almost impossible to overstate the importance of EMI (wasn’t re-named abbey road until years later of course) as a location. When the first two tape machines were brought back from Germany after WW-II, one went to EMI, and a second went to California where the founders of Ampex got to work. (BASF had figured out the mylar backing for tape, changing the world) The Brits studied theirs and created the BTR-1, literally British Tape Recorder 1, and the lab-coated top-of-the-mountain Engineers there were won over by these crazy kids. Or beaten down, lol. And its incredible how fast it happened. I will clearly always lose your drinking game. And I’m ok with that. Now I’m going to go soak my thumb. ;) cheers!
Great background on the recording gear! (Especially given your all-thumbs limitation...) There's a terrific new documentary on Abbey Road (er, EMI) studios called "If These Walls Could Sing." It's more on the history and incredible array of artists than on the technical side behind the scenes, but there's a little of that too.
Funny you should mention Paul Ramon and the future Ramones. In the Billy Idol interview referenced above, he brings up that very thing. (Macca used the alias on an early '63 tour when the Beatles were the support act - ! - for Johnny Gentle.)
Two hot takes bc im typing with my thumb. (How is this progress?!)
1. The seminal OG punk band literally named themselves after a Paul McCartney alias (Paul Ramone) as you are no doubt aware.
The pistols perhaps didn’t get the joke, or it was too close to home?
2. Studio as instrument - yes, well behind Les Paul but its almost impossible to overstate the importance of EMI (wasn’t re-named abbey road until years later of course) as a location. When the first two tape machines were brought back from Germany after WW-II, one went to EMI, and a second went to California where the founders of Ampex got to work. (BASF had figured out the mylar backing for tape, changing the world) The Brits studied theirs and created the BTR-1, literally British Tape Recorder 1, and the lab-coated top-of-the-mountain Engineers there were won over by these crazy kids. Or beaten down, lol. And its incredible how fast it happened. I will clearly always lose your drinking game. And I’m ok with that. Now I’m going to go soak my thumb. ;) cheers!
Arguing with someone about whether the Beatles song yellow submarine became popular ironically, like it's not actually a good Beatles songs? I disagreed, but thought I'd ask the expert!!
Actually, I can see it both ways; to me it all has to do with how you listen to it. Yellow Submarine was intended as a children's sing-a-long, and recorded with a gimmick-infused novelty-record approach. In this light, it's genuinely terrific and accomplishes its goal perfectly.
The problem in a way is the "good Beatles song" formulation: too many people don't hear it as a communal, utopian song for kids, but as a release by what's supposed to be the biggest rock band in the world.
The funniest thing about reactions to Yellow Submarine is that in the year or so after its release, an entire cottage industry arose in which academics, cultural critics and other overly credulous listeners fell over themselves applying tortured interpretations to the song's hidden meanings. (No joke, you've got to hear some of these things to believe them.)
Personally I think it's unfortunate that Yellow Submarine was a) released as an A-side single (actually a double-A-side, along with Eleanor Rigby), drawing attention to it as if it was a substantive piece, and b) included on Revolver, an album on which every other track was either brilliant, innovative or both. Both decisions lead inevitably to people taking Yellow Submarine seriously (and snarkily using it to explain their dislike of the band!)...
As far as I'm concerned Yellow Submarine is a great children's song and the record is filled with sonic fun. And having Ringo sing it was of course a masterstroke (and should defuse any criticism or cynicism). But I do wonder if it should have been put out in a different context, i.e. not as an A-side or on a major LP. Maybe if it was simply left as Eleanor Rigby's B-side...
Anyway, thanks for the thought food!
Just recommended you in a debate I saw between beach boys and the Beatles ;)
Hey Perry I don't know if you watch the series succession but in season three the episode where they go to the investors beach house there's a great moment where Kendall the son, Calls the Beatles a great band but then his father revises and calls it a *good band and this very small, dispute over great vs good underlies the deeper dysfunction between the father and son
Hey Rebecca, thanks for the tip - I watched the first two seasons of Succession but haven't seen season 3 yet! Love that anecdote and will keep an eye out for it; sounds like yet another in a long line of fraught father-son allegories in that show. (Almost hard to watch at times for that reason.)
Funny thing about that exchange: Brian Cox, the veteran actor who plays the father, is in real life a huge Beatles fan and would probably agree with Kendall. You might get a kick out of a few of his comments when he was a guest on SiriusXM last year:
--On Eleanor Rigby: "The idea of 'picking up the rice in a church where a wedding has been, lives in a dream'...you know, it's about alienation. There was always that element in, particularly, working class society of those who were more frail both mentally and spiritually. And Father McKenzie - I mean, 'writing the sermon that no one will hear, no one comes near' - it's just a brilliant, brilliant song."
--On While My Guitar Gently Weeps: "The notion of a guitar gently weeping, it's such a lyrical thing. It's worthy of the romantic poets of the late 17- and early 1800s, you know, Shelley and Keats. It has that feeling about it. Beautiful song."
--On "Get Back," Peter Jackson's 8-hour 2021 documentary: "That incredible Beatles documentary which we've all seen - it made me cry because it represented so much of my youth. Social barriers were dissolving, everything was hopeful."
Now I've gotta binge some Succession and get caught up... :)
Loving the series, thank you for this!
Two hot takes bc im typing with my thumb. (How is this progress?!)
1. The seminal OG punk band literally named themselves after a Paul McCartney alias (Paul Ramone) as you are no doubt aware.
The pistols perhaps didn’t get the joke, or it was too close to home?
2. Studio as instrument - yes, well behind Les Paul but its almost impossible to overstate the importance of EMI (wasn’t re-named abbey road until years later of course) as a location. When the first two tape machines were brought back from Germany after WW-II, one went to EMI, and a second went to California where the founders of Ampex got to work. (BASF had figured out the mylar backing for tape, changing the world) The Brits studied theirs and created the BTR-1, literally British Tape Recorder 1, and the lab-coated top-of-the-mountain Engineers there were won over by these crazy kids. Or beaten down, lol. And its incredible how fast it happened. I will clearly always lose your drinking game. And I’m ok with that. Now I’m going to go soak my thumb. ;) cheers!
Great background on the recording gear! (Especially given your all-thumbs limitation...) There's a terrific new documentary on Abbey Road (er, EMI) studios called "If These Walls Could Sing." It's more on the history and incredible array of artists than on the technical side behind the scenes, but there's a little of that too.
Funny you should mention Paul Ramon and the future Ramones. In the Billy Idol interview referenced above, he brings up that very thing. (Macca used the alias on an early '63 tour when the Beatles were the support act - ! - for Johnny Gentle.)
Thanks for reading!
Loving the series, thank you for this!
Two hot takes bc im typing with my thumb. (How is this progress?!)
1. The seminal OG punk band literally named themselves after a Paul McCartney alias (Paul Ramone) as you are no doubt aware.
The pistols perhaps didn’t get the joke, or it was too close to home?
2. Studio as instrument - yes, well behind Les Paul but its almost impossible to overstate the importance of EMI (wasn’t re-named abbey road until years later of course) as a location. When the first two tape machines were brought back from Germany after WW-II, one went to EMI, and a second went to California where the founders of Ampex got to work. (BASF had figured out the mylar backing for tape, changing the world) The Brits studied theirs and created the BTR-1, literally British Tape Recorder 1, and the lab-coated top-of-the-mountain Engineers there were won over by these crazy kids. Or beaten down, lol. And its incredible how fast it happened. I will clearly always lose your drinking game. And I’m ok with that. Now I’m going to go soak my thumb. ;) cheers!